Originally by: Ovaron

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You miss 2 important points.

1) Would a player control the POS , would he attack the 400 Drones orbiting the POS without any danger or chance to hit the POS? Or would he attack the Ships who is the Launcher of the Drones?

2) You miss the point that POS is controlled by an AI , and to use a bug in an AI to get a massive advantage , its called an exploit.


To example, in en Fantasy RGP , if you get the monster in a zone , who can't defend herself , and your are able to attack them without any danger. You would see this as an "normal" way to kill this monster?

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Originally by: Miri Tirzan

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Originally by: Sir JoJo

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Originally by: Ovaron

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You miss 2 important points.

1) Would a player control the POS , would he attack the 400 Drones orbiting the POS without any danger or chance to hit the POS? Or would he attack the Ships who is the Launcher of the Drones?

2) You miss the point that POS is controlled by an AI , and to use a bug in an AI to get a massive advantage , its called an exploit.


To example, in en Fantasy RGP , if you get the monster in a zone , who can't defend herself , and your are able to attack them without any danger. You would see this as an "normal" way to kill this monster?

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Do a player control the npc??? same thing? if i cant use drones on POS ai i shouldent be allowed on NPC ai either?

clearly ppl use drones to go around the npc's ai when they wait to all npc are target u then realease drones so they can kill frigs safly?

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Actually, I am pretty sure that is called tactics and is why you dont leave an IA to do the work of a player.

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Originally by: Lunas Feelgood

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All i sayd stop this whinning ****. when we tryed to take xelas POS down we had so many bugs. But we didnt whine about it on the bloddy forums.. THE GM is saying is a sploit, then is a sploit end...

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Originally by: Elenia Kheynes

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Edited by: Elenia Kheynes on 06/08/2005 15:15:12

Originally by: Arimas Talasko

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Originally by: Elve Sorrow

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Everyone has ALWAYS used Light Drones to draw fire.

Light drones against a jammed Raven.
Light drones in complexes to solo them.
Light drones from a cruiser doing lvl4 solo.

Whats the difference? It's just retarded, clearly. Whats even more retarded ofcourse is the POS got set to 100% shield, but none of the BS were returned.

Oh and please, you lads want to stop whining about the lag. Which retards deployed 100s of drones to lag us out in GW and then claimed it was a valid tactic? Add that to the list above btw.

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Ollyy respond to this. Terradoct you too.

So far it seems to me like when Xetic gets under attack and lots of carebear subscribers threaten to leave over 'grief tactics' and stuff everything we do starts becoming an exploit or enemy shields start getting repaired a lot for no reason. Such as the previous time [5] wiped out Xetic a couple months ago. Remember the station shields... that was ridiculous. Kinda like this.

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Let me respond to this, but in all honesty I just see that you guys are so ****ed you can't just admit something which was obviously an exploit can be considered as such (let me laugh with your so called "superior tactics"):
-raven against drones: if raven ain't jammed, he can defend itself. there is also something called a SMARTBOMB to help you. In current case the POS CAN NEVER DEFEND ITSELF. Is it clear ? You can put whatever guns you want, POS can't defend itself. There is 0 chance for a POS to win against a fleet using light drones.
-light drones in complex to solo them -> you are taking an example which is player vs npcs. In current case I'd like to remind you that POSs belong to players, so attacking a POS is PVP. You are completly off topic. I'd to add that the hundreds of npcs in a complex (sorry I only did a level 10 and lvl 5) would kill your drones pretty fast anyway. At a POS you can't deploy 100 sentries JUST TO KILL THE DRONES. (I put it in big in case you were trying to read one word out of 3)
-light drones from a cruiser doing a lvl4 complex solo. In this case you are again off topic, talking about PVE and not PVP. But I'll answer anyway: the amount of npcs + sentries are usually enough to kill the drones a cruiser can carry making the interest of the operation... quite uninteresting. you are also talking about 1 solo cruiser. Here were are talking about 40+ BSs launching hundreds of drones at a POS.


I will finaly add one last thing: the night when we took jv1, I petitonned ccp to know if the use of massive drones against POSs would be an exploit. Answer was they would wait to see it but recommanded NOT to do it. You had the opportunity to ask what CCP thought about your tactic and didn't do it. You lost time and work (and light drones ^^) but all by your very own fault.

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Originally by: Elenia Kheynes

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Originally by: Sir JoJo

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ok i am not gonna try adn figure who said what and ****.. but at one point u guys say POS are using AI so u cant see em as a player object(PvP) then the next its a a player object and cant be compared whit npcs? what is it? clearly its using AI like NPC and should be dealth like that cause as u say it need to be able to take care of itself whit no player controling it... so u are kinda giving us right there

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my dear... Who deploys a POS ? A player right ? So when you attack a POS it's PVP. It's player vs player, you are trying to hurt a corp or a specific player. You know it perfectly, you're just arguing it for arguing.

Originally by: Slaveabuser

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Originally by: Elenia Kheynes

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the POS was fitted to its maximum with turrets of all kind like i already said. Small pulse, medium autocanons, medium artilleries, large artilleries. A Fortress. Most large POSs ingame aren't as well protected as this medium one.

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And did you go to the pos and help it? If drones mess up the guns then aid the pos with your own ships.

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There were approx 20 ships keeping the gate. And one very important detail: LAG. It was taking like 3 minutes to warp. Attacking the hostile fleet was like committing mass suicide. You are also arguing just for the pelasure to argue it seems.

anybody else got a concrete (and serious) argument to explain why drones should be allowed against POSs ?

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Originally by: Maya Rkell

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Originally by: Sir JoJo

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ohh and id like to pint out that the trick stated as "exploit" was the locking time on those where to long against its target rotating time.


Now take 150 frigs/intys whit nano and abs u will have ships taking even longer to lock? cause they got les signature radius then drones.... ? so if i do that take a fleet of 100+ intys and frigs to take fire for my bs or shuttles is that a exploit? i doubt that VERY much?

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Bu this ruling, clearly yes it is.

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Originally by: Elenia Kheynes

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Originally by: Sir JoJo

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ohh and id like to pint out that the trick stated as "exploit" was the locking time on those where to long against its target rotating time.


Now take 150 frigs/intys whit nano and abs u will have ships taking even longer to lock? cause they got les signature radius then drones.... ? so if i do that take a fleet of 100+ intys and frigs to take fire for my bs or shuttles is that a exploit? i doubt that VERY much?

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My dear... what are u thinking about ?
Frigates heh... we got webbies you know right ? And small turrets as well. Do it if you like wasting your time, your problem, not ours. As long as you post the losses ofc.
Frigates can't also be replaced as easely as small drones and can't be deployed in such numbers.

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Originally by: Elenia Kheynes

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I love repeating things 3 times ^.^

hundreds of drones cause guns disfunctions and are also used as decoys against POS IA in a way that make the kill of a POS too easy. CCP never intented POS to be killed so easely when defended like this (I should post a screenshot of the POS, there are turrets everywhere on it, powergrid is fully used to fit turrets).

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